Minutes of the 8th Meeting of the Freshwater Fisheries Forum Steering Group held at Innkeepers Lodge, Perth, on Wednesday 25 May 2005.
In attendance:
Gordon Brown - SEERAD (Chairman pm only)
David Dunkley - SEERAD (Chairman am only)
Manson Wright - SEERAD
David Ford - SEERAD
Alistair Prior - SEERAD
Mags Nicholson - SEERAD (Secretariat)
Andrew Wallace - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards
Brian Davidson - Association of Salmon Fishery Boards
George Holdsworth - Association of Scottish Stillwater Fisheries
Seymour Monro - Atlantic Salmon Trust
Willie Miller - Consultative Committee on Protection Orders
Ross Gardiner - Fisheries Research Services
Alastair Stephen - Institute of Fisheries Management
Roger Brook - Rivers and Fisheries Trusts of Scotland
Paul Knight - Salmon and Trout Association
Ian Calcott - Scottish Anglers National Association
Callum Sinclair - Scottish Environment Protection Agency
Ron Woods - Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling
David Howell - Scottish Natural Heritage
Introduction
1. The Chairman (Mr Dunkley) welcomed Steering Group members and apologised on behalf of Gordon Brown, who had to attend a meeting in Edinburgh in the morning but would hopefully arrive around lunch time. He introduced two new members, David Ford from SEERAD who is the new leader of the team who will be progressing the forthcoming Fisheries Bill through Parliament, and Paul Knight from S & TA who was deputising for Colin Innes.
Apologies
2. Apologies were received from Colin Innes (S & TA), John Armstrong (FRS), Ronnie Picken (SANA), Miranda Lindsay (SRPBA), Peter Maitland (FCC) and Willie Shearer (SNFAS), Callum Sinclair (SEPA).
Minutes of Previous Meeting
3. The Steering Group approved the minutes of the last meeting with no additional comments.
Action - Secretariat to put approved minutes on the SE website.
Matters Arising
Task Matrix
4. The Chairman said that the Task Matrix had been updated and a copy will be put on the website. He explained that it is our intention to update the website as soon as possible. It was agreed that the annual/weekly close times for grayling section can be taken out.
Action - Secretariat.
Highlands and Islands Aquaculture Forum
5. Alistair Prior said that main issues for discussion were the Code of Practice-Salmon & Farming Industry, containment and sea lice issues and these are being dealt with by sub-groups. The HIAF are due to meet again.
Action - Alistair Prior to continue to report back on the work of HIAF
Freshwater Fisheries Forum
6. The Chairman reported that a report of the last Forum had been sent to the Minister. The report included a transcript of the Forum proceedings.
Action - SEERAD to arrange for transcript and additional comments to go on website.
Licensing Proposals for Regulating the Removal of Fish
7. The Scottish Federation for Coarse Angling had circulated a paper on this at previous meeting and it was agreed that culling or removal of established species should be subject to regulation and that all species should be covered by licences. Bill Team members and EA have discussed fish movements and The Executive will produce a report that will look at possible ways to regulate fish movements. This report can then be circulated by SG members to their respective groups for discussion. The Executive are looking for a potential solution to people breaking the law and may wish to introduce Scottish legislation along the lines of section 30 of the salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act 1975, but taking account of the difficulties the EA have experienced with enforcement. The question of funding was again raised by Alastair Stephen saying there was no point in introducing legislation without funding. He asked the question "how much of the work Section 30 is funded by Rod Licences in England and Wales?" The Executive agreed to contact EA and report back with the figure.
Action - SEERAD to produce a report on Introductions and report back on above question. SG members to discuss this report with their group and report back with any thoughts.
Access
8. The Scottish Executive's paper on Access (SFFF SG 8-1) had been circulated to SG members prior to today's meeting with the intention of inviting comments on its content.
The general opinion of the group was that the 1976 Act worked reasonably well. It was felt, however, that some of its content is now quite old and a decision would have to be made on whether to repeal parts of it or scrap the whole of the Act. The main concern of the group was that the problems which had been identified should be addressed. The Minister is keen to have stakeholders views on this.
Cost and Cumbersome process
It was agreed that the process was costly, the main reason being advertising costs. Suggestions were put forward for placing advertisements on the web, as most people will be able to get access to this but there would be a need for some sort of press release to let people know where to find it. There should be an obligation from members to tell their own interest groups.
Action - SEERAD to review process during development of Bill proposals, taking into account problems that have been encountered.
Consultative Committee
The general consensus among members was that the existing Consultative Committee should be replaced by a broad Committee on which representatives of angling bodies from all sectors would have seats as a matter of right. It was also recognised that the present committee was broadly representative due to SANA efforts. It was felt that an assemblage of interest groups not individuals should be scrutinising new applications. The body required to have credibility with the angling community.
Action - SEERAD to consider Committee options and discuss with lawyers.
Blanket Coverage
The Group agreed that there is an inherent unfairness in blanket coverage and provision should be made to exclude fisheries where there is non-compliance from owners in prescribed areas. One of the problems was identified as being where a loch has multiple ownership and not all owners 'opt in' but benefit from the Protection Order. The Orders would have to define precisely which stretches of river or areas of the catchment in question are included in the prescribed areas.
Action - SEERAD need to seek legal advice on above.
Fragmented Coverage of Scotland
A total of only 14 POs have been made since the passing of the 1976 Act. The Group felt if a decision was reached that required regulation of fisheries throughout Scotland, there is a need to set a system which will allow any management body to have scientific data, although in some areas this is already available. There was support for the introduction of a rod licence but it was felt that proposals would have to be considered in the light of the detail . Some other ideas/comments put forward were:
- Use permit system as a management tool
- Try to establish some structure without being too prescriptive
- advise anglers on individual rivers and lochs
- If [anglers] don't put in a return then they wouldn't get a permit the following year
- If a licensing system is portrayed properly to anglers indicating where and how any monies raised would be spent, then there shouldn't be too many problems
- Monies from a licensing system could be redirected towards areas in need of management but not just selected areas.
Action - SEERAD to consider whether such proposals could be progressed
Conservation and Monitoring
The Group felt the same Committee set up for looking at Protection Order applications should also look at conservation and monitoring. There should be a need for a central body (ie pan Scotland) with smaller, local bodies delivering information and advice to the central one. Its structure could be similar to the Steering Group. It was felt that there was no consistency in existing legislation and this Committee could be given a co-ordinating role. Concerns were raised that there are already Fishery Boards, Fisheries Trusts and now this new body which would be covering the same areas. The Group were concerned that there is no requirement in the 1976 Act for monitoring and feedback.
Action - Steering group to consider whether formalising feedback practicable
It was generally agreed that the Trusts should be given responsibility, in collaboration with "stakeholder interests", and that all fish species should be involved, not just those that are the subject of fisheries. The Trusts would then have the final decision on how and where fisheries would be operated. The Trusts would need to embrace some representatives and there would be a need for guidelines and protocols which should be adhered to. Standards of access should be built into these guidelines, and the need for greater publicity should be highlighted. There should be a mandatory requirement when property changes hands that new riparian owners be made aware of an existing PO which affects their property.
The Group discussed the issue of lochs that have been described as "public waters". There has been considerable debate over what constitutes a "public loch".
Action - SEERAD to investigate what constitutes a public loch.
Commercial fisheries
Commercial fisheries cannot, for business reasons, keep anglers away, but they should only allow access up to a sustainable extent. This could be addressed through a licensing system.
Resolution of conflicts etc
Because of time constraints left the Chairman asked if SG members could think about this and get back to SEERAD with any views/thoughts.
Alternatives to the system of Protection Order Area
Because of time constraints again the Chairman asked if SG members could think about this and get back to SEERAD with any views/thoughts.
Action - SEERAD to consider any views/thoughts received and circulate to SG Members.
Management
9. The Chairman (Mr Brown) thanked the Management Sub Group for producing the paper (SFFF SG 8-2) on the recent Sub Group meeting and invited Andrew Wallace to discuss the Sub Group's findings. AW reported that the paper was a very good minute of the meeting. There are several issues (mainly the 3 mentioned in above paper) to take forward and members are in consultation with their Irish colleagues to analyse the Irish structure to assess both strengths and weaknesses. The review of fisheries management aims to find structures that operate most efficiently and to develop appropriate funding mechanisms Officials will then be in a position to approach Ministers with proposals. The Executive's "Strategic Framework for Inshore Fisheries" was recommended as a helpful model.
Action - SEERAD to look to commissioning someone to review the possible options for new management structures and funding in the light of the work already done by the Management Sub Group, and the earlier work that the Sub Group had included in its deliberations.
Date and place of next meeting
10. Provisional date set for 20 September 2005 at 10:00am, venue to be confirmed. Several members requested that the meeting take place in Stirling which is more accessible. It is hoped that the draft consultation letter will be available by then.
There should be an electronic discussion on the residual issues not discussed at length today.
The next Freshwater Fisheries Forum would likely take place around late Oct/Nov.