THE SCOTTISH FIRE & RESCUE SERVICES
Service Delivery Advisory Forum
Minutes: SERVICE DELIVERY ADVISORY FORUM: Wednesday 20 June 2007 at the Scottish Fire Service College, Gullane.
Present: Brian Allaway (Chair)
David Dalziel Secretary, CFOA (Scotland)
Graeme Fraser Scottish Executive
Gavin Barrie Fire Brigades Union
Lindsay McGregor COSLA
Kristen Miller COSLA
Jim Smith HM Fire Service Inspectorate
Steven Torrie APFO
Lynne Dickson CFOA(S)
Rebecca Brown CFOA(S) (SDAF secretariat)
Jose Torero Edinburgh University
Bob Virtue Scottish Executive/Learning & Development
David Gill FOA
Andrew Shuttleworth HM Fire Service Inspectorate
Cliff Sear Chair, FRSVSG
1. APOLOGIES
Jeff Ord HM Fire Service Inspectorate
Raymond Brown Unison
Stephen Hunter APFO
Karen Bradley COSLA
Roddy Robertson FBU
2. Minutes
Minutes of the Meeting held on 14 March 2007 were agreed.
3. Matters Arising
(a) Communication Issues
Graeme Fraser advised the forum that the minutes and papers from all forums were now available.
The Chair added that these minutes should be made available, where possible, on the websites of each group represented on the forum.
(b) Scottish Wildfire Forum
It was reported that the 2006 Annual Report for the Scottish Wildfire Forum was now complete and it was agreed that this should be tabled at the next meeting.
The group were advised that Dr Colin Legg was unable to attend but will attend the next meeting in September.
(c) CFOA (Scotland) Community Fire Safety/Integrated Fire Risk Management - Research and Analysis
Brian Allaway advised the forum that there has been some confusion with who is responsible for this item. This will be rectified and reported on at the next meeting.
4. Fire, Rescue & Sector Vocational Standards Group (FRSVSG)
Cliff Sear, Chair of FRSVSG, presented an overview of the FRSVSG including what work has been done to date and what will be done in the future.
It was reported that the Scottish Fire and Rescue Services National Occupational Standards are currently developed through SkillsPlus-IDeA but this contract expires in March 2008 and another contract will have to be secured by then. The most appropriate 'home' for FRSVSG seemed to be the SSC for Justice but there were other options.
Reference was made to the Leitch Review which advocated employers determining training requirements. Jose Torero highlighted that it is unusual for training requirements and delivery methods to be decided on by the employer. This would normally be determined by the training provider and in the event of this not being done to a satisfactory standard the training provider should be notified.
The Chair thanked Cliff for the presentation and added that a lot of work on the introduction of IPDS in Scotland has been carried out and the Career and Contribution Framework has helped with this.
5. Draft Note of Strategic Advisory Forum held on 27 March 2007
Noted.
6. Minutes of Equality & Diversity Working Group
Gavin Barrie requested that anyone from the forum requesting information co-operate as fully as possible.
7. Retained Duty System Review
It was reported that a large amount of work has been carried out in relation to the review of the retained duty system. A brief history of the review was provided.
The Chair acknowledged the work which has been completed to date and added that this should now start progressing through the system.
David Dalziel advised the forum that the intention would be to report back to the forum on a 6 monthly basis.
Gavin Barrie highlighted that, to his knowledge, despite previous agreement the FBU had not been invited to attend the Review Group.
It was reported that this was not the case and that a FBU representative has been contacted. Gavin Barrie to follow this up.
It was stressed to the forum that the RDS working group was set up to identify best practices and bring them forward and was not set up to make major decisions. Major decisions would still be made at local level and representative bodies would be involved in changing systems or producing new policies.
8. Anti-Social Behaviour Core Indicators and Outcome Agreements Fire and Fire Setting in Scotland
It was reported to the forum that this is a significant area of work due to the social implications and the effect this has on the Fire and Rescue Service. Areas of concern and suggested strategies were discussed and information on successes to date was provided. It was highlighted that unless some sector specific areas are focussed on then attempts to reduce the level of wilful fire raising will fail.
Andrew Shuttleworth supported these comments and added that working closely with the Police is very useful for the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service in tackling this agenda. Andrew added that he is hoping to progress this with the Scottish Executive and advised that results of initiatives at local level have been good.
The Chair recommended that a briefing paper may prove useful for SAF and MAG and that whilst the report is informative it may require a little extra work. An executive summary and performance measures that we would want to recommend would be beneficial.
It was suggested that it may also be beneficial to include some real examples of success at local level.
It was agreed by the forum that this would be taken to the next MAG meeting.
9. New Dimensions Incidents - Welfare Arrangements
The FBU submitted a paper requesting that SDAF recommends to the Strategic Advisory Forum that a SAF Task and Finish group be established to underpin the development of a protocol for welfare arrangements for all New Dimensions incidents in Scotland and that CFOA(S) postpone the meetings of its Task and Finish group established to develop such a protocol.
The CFOA(S) position is that this is a long recognised group established to deliver on resilience arrangements. The difficulty has been in all the rep. bodies agreeing to sit down together with CFOA(S) despite numerous attempts by the Chair of the Task Group to involve them. FOA confirmed that they have attended the Group and confirmed that it is not CBRN specific which was also a concern of the FBU.
The FBU consider that a more strategic approach is required and that this is out of the remit of CFOA(S). They have raised their concerns regarding welfare arrangements at New Dimensions incidents at a previous SDAF meeting.
HMCI advised the Forum that welfare arrangements are the responsibility of the employer and the appropriate arrangements need to be addressed by each Fire and Rescue Authority
The Chair advised that the Forum could not direct CFOA(S) to postpone meetings. Welfare arrangements were an Employers responsibility and any issue affecting terms and conditions was a matter for NJC or local bargaining machinery. SAF has acknowledged that the CFOA(S) task group is in place and taking this work forward but there was no consensus within the Forum on the appropriate mechanism for developing this piece of work. The Chair would report the detail of the debate to MAG.
10. Water Rescue
The FBU advised that following the recent parliamentary debate water rescue arrangements need to be considered at a national level and requested that SDAF recommends to the Minister that that there should be a moratorium on all new water rescue initiatives in Scotland pending the Minister's deliberations. The FBU confirmed that it did not want to see current practices stopped.
The CFOA(S) view was that water rescue arrangements are included in local risk management plans and were a matter for local Fire and Rescue services. Training provision was currently being rolled out. HMCI also raised concerns that requesting a moratorium where the Police have responsibility and request assistance from the service could be problematical if that request was denied. FOA accepted the position in relation to IRMP's but also raised the problem of adequate resourcing.
There was no agreement on the FBU recommendation. The Chair confirmed that he could not direct the Minister on this issue but would provide advice. However, as the Minister had made statements on how he was going to take this forward the Chair assumed that parliamentary process took precedence over SDAF's deliberations. The Chair would seek to ascertain how the Minister planned to take this forward and what if any input he would wish SDAF to have
11. IRMP Planning Processes and Change Management Methodology
This paper was submitted to the forum for consideration and feedback. Written comments should be forwarded to David Gill, FOA or to FOA Head Office.
It was suggested that this paper and the recommendations contained within it would be better placed at the IRMP Practitioners Forum.
This recommendation was agreed.
12. A.O.C.B.
1. Skills for Life Strategy
Gavin Barrie advised the forum that this document is going to 90 day consultation and asked that anyone who wishes to contribute be heard.
Bob Virtue recommended placing this document on the agenda for the next meeting. This document should be sent out to a range of groups and it might be of value to come via this forum.
Based on the date of the next meeting and the consultation period this wouldn't leave much time. The chair agreed that the paper could be looked at on an individual basis and comments brought back to the next meeting.
2. Condolences
The on duty death of Watch Manager Paul Mallaghan (Hertfordshire Fire and Rescue Service) was reported with regret as was the death of a Watch Manager in Highlands and Islands and the loss of 9 firefighters in a factory fire in the USA.
The Chair sought approval from the group for a letter to be sent from the group to Hertfordshire Fire and Rescue Service. This is normally confined to on duty deaths.
The forum agreed that this would be appropriate.
13. Date of Next Meeting
Date and venue for September meeting confirmed as 26 September 2007, 1030 hours, Central Scotland Fire and Rescue Service.
The Chair added that forum members should feel free to nominate locations for future meetings.