[SEETLLD JRT- M02]
THE ROUNDTABLE FORUM
WEDNESDAY 10 MAY 2006 , St ANDREWS HOUSE
MINUTES OF FE-SPECIFIC SESSION
Present: Tom Kelly, ASC
Sue Pinder, ASC
Penny Neish, ASC
Roger McClure, SFC
John McClelland, SFC
David Wann, SFC
Riona Bell, SFC
Derek Horsburgh, SFC
Gail Edwards, NUS Scotland
Natale Craig, NUS Scotland
Mary Senior, STUC
Marian Healy,STUC
Douglas Black, STUC
Aileen McKechnie, Scottish Executive (in the Chair)
George Reid, Scottish Executive
Col Baird, Scottish Executive
Anna Kynaston, Scottish Executive
Peter Lloyd, Scottish Executive
Margaret McLachlan, Scottish Executive
Apologies: Ian Macpherson, ASC
Mark Batho, Scottish Executive
Welcome by Aileen McKechnie, Head of Further and Adult Education Division
Aileen McKechnie welcomed participants to the second meeting of the joint Roundtable and informed the meeting that HE colleagues would join members at 12.30 for lunch. The joint session due to begin at 1.15 would be chaired by the Deputy First Minister.
Minutes of last meeting
Minutes of the previous meeting were agreed without amendment.
However, at the request of the STUC, the minutes should in future attribute to the STUC comments made by any of its delegation, regardless of the union concerned. This was agreed.
Agenda item 1 - Action Points Arising from Previous Meeting
· SFC to report back on consideration by Chair's committee of SFC representation at future Roundtable meetings.
John McClelland informed members that he was to due to give feedback to the next Chair's Committee meeting on his attendance at today's Roundtable. He thought however that there would be a continued interest by individual Council members in their attendance, depending on the agenda.
· Scottish Executive to re-arrange Core Group meeting for February if possible.
This meeting took place on 21 February with a subsequent meeting on 5 May.
· Scottish Executive to add Spending Review to agenda (FE and joint sessions) as a standing item.
Added as a standing item.
Agenda Item 2 - Review of Scotland 's Colleges (RoSCo)
Col Baird gave an up-date on the Review. He explained that all four workstreams are on track for completion of work early in 2007.
The 'Difference Colleges Make' working group's report 'Unlocking Opportunity' is expected to be formally launched in September 2006. Ministerial approval will be sought to the possibility of a printed draft of this report being issued to delegates at ASC's Annual Conference in June. Some members expressed concern that launching an early draft of the report might reduce the impact of the messages contained in the final version, with possibly detrimental effect on Spending Review decisions.
The SFC and the Scottish Executive favoured early publication in draft given the currency of the case studies contained within it. This would allow the content of the report to raise the awareness of the importance of Scotland's colleges and reinforce the breadth of work in which they are involved. The Executive assured members that discussions on maximising publicity for the sector, and on the related impact of the report, would be ongoing. It was further noted that a series of outputs from RoSCo would be helpful in building momentum and highlighting the work of the sector.
Agenda Item 3 - Update HR 'best practice' Project
ASC gave an update on its 'best practice' project (previously referred to as HR modernisation). Stage 1 of the project was now complete and an interim report had been circulated to the relevant working group. Stage 2 - the gathering of case studies - was coming to an end. Stage 3 in the process was to pull together examples of best practice and begin discussions with the unions based on these. An initial meeting had been arranged to share the findings with the unions prior to local dissemination events, which will take place between September and December. STUC stated that they were disappointed that they had not been involved earlier in the process but were pleased that they would have a chance to input before the dissemination events took place.
Action: ASC agreed to report back on progress at the next meeting
Agenda Item 4 - Powers of the SFC under the Further and Higher Education ( Scotland ) Act 2005
Copies of an Executive paper detailing the SFC's powers were circulated to members. STUC informed the meeting that they had recently met with the SFC. They were now satisfied with the ability of the SFC to use the lever of Conditions of Grant to influence action by individual institutions.
Agenda Item 5 -Staff Governance and Fair Employment Agenda
STUC is keen to develop a staff governance standard. The Executive intimated that this issue should be raised with the 'SLALE' working group of the Review.
Agenda Item 6 - Efficient Government
The Executive reiterated that Ministers remain committed to efficiency savings across the public sector and highlighted the importance of being meticulous in documenting the efficiencies the sector is already making so that credit can be attributed. SFC reported that its draft corporate plan had a strong focus on Efficient Government and the SFC continues to look at new ways of encouraging efficiencies in the sector; for example through procurement structures.
Agenda Item 7 - Spending Review
Ministers have now confirmed that the date of the Executive's next spending review will coincide with that of the UK Government's CSR, namely 2007. It was expected that this would be a tight spending round and it was therefore even more important that evidence provided to Ministers is robust. It was also highlighted that some of the work which the 'Difference Colleges Make' workstream is carrying out will be an important source to draw upon.
Agenda Item 8 - A.O.B
None
Close
Aileen McKechnie brought the session to a close by inviting members to note the 1.15 pm start time of the joint session.
THE ROUNDTABLE FORUM
WEDNESDAY 10 MAY 2006 , St ANDREWS HOUSE
JOINT SESSION
Present: Tom Kelly, ASC
Ian Macpherson, ASC
Sue Pinder, ASC
Penny Neish, ASC
Roger McClure, SFC
John McClelland, SFC
Derek Horsburgh, SFC
David Wann, SFC
Riona Bell, SFC
Gail Edwards, NUS Scotland
Natale Craig, NUS Scotland
Tim Goodwin, NUS Scotland
Mary Senior, STUC
Douglas Black, STUC
Marian Healy, EIS
David Bleiman, AUT
Professor Joan Stringer, US
Robin McAlpine, US
Kath Ryall, UNISON
Deputy First Minister (in the Chair)
Mark Batho, Scottish Executive
Aileen McKechnie, Scottish Executive
George Reid, Scottish Executive
Ann McVie, Scottish Executive
Peter Lloyd, Scottish Executive
Alex Young, Scottish Executive
Anna Kynaston, Scottish Executive
Margaret McLachlan, Scottish Executive
Andy Myles, Special Adviser
Apologies: David Caldwell, US
Alistair Hunter, AUT
Professor John Archer, US
Welcome from Deputy First Minister and Minister for Enterprise and Lifelong Learning (DFM)
The DFM welcomed members to the second meeting of the joint Roundtable and invited members to introduce themselves.
Minutes of last meeting
Minutes of the previous meeting were agreed.
Agenda Item 1 - Action Points Arising from Previous Meeting
· It was agreed that the Scottish Executive would seek feedback from Roundtable members on the new format of the forum.
This would be dealt with under item 2 of the agenda.
· Scottish Executive to monitor progress of VAT issue following Budget Statement.
Scottish Executive FAE colleagues advised that this had not been a feature in the most recent budget statement. Cabinet Office is now in contact with UK Treasury to establish why this issue has so far failed to command support.
· Scottish Executive to bring VAT issue to attention of Efficient Government Team.
Scottish Executive indicated that it had drawn the issue to the Efficient Government team.
Agenda Item 2 - Feedback on Format of the Roundtable Forum
Feedback had been positive. Respondents were happy with the format of the meeting and for the Executive to continue to host. It was requested that each session last a full hour. It was agreed that the FE specific session would now be referred to as 'College specific' session and the HE specific session as 'HEI-specific' session.
Agenda Item 3 - Update on 'Strategic Futures' Work
The Executive has been co-ordinating strategic futures work for both sectors as a key part of the Review of Scotland's Colleges. A series of meetings had taken place, with both college and university principals, to gather their views and aspirations as they look ahead.
Two successful open space events had been held in Glasgow for the purpose of gathering views from a wide range of stakeholders. Although feedback from these events was positive, members suggested that more flexibility and movement across groups could have been encouraged. This would have allowed for a wider flow of ideas and for facilitators to participate in some of the other group sessions. It was also suggested that a final feedback session be incorporated into any future event of this type, to share what had been discussed with all participants. The Executive indicated that a summary of responses from these events would be published on the Scottish Executive website in due course.
Agenda Item 4 - International: Export Potential of Scottish Education
The DFM reinforced the message of the need to attract international students to study in Scotland and exploit Scotland's world class education system as an 'export earner', while at the same time encouraging more Scottish students to study abroad. He intimated that although traditional links with USA and Japan will remain very important, that we should also recognise the current potential to promote education to India and China.
US highlighted the need for assistance with branding of Scottish Education and the need to work better with overseas representatives such as SDI. ASC mentioned that Scotland's Colleges International is currently working with SQA and it was hoping to make an announcement detailing progress at it's June conference. The SFC acknowledged that this was a new area for them but that they have demonstrated their committed to supporting institutions by including the international agenda within their draft corporate plan. The STUC reminded members that the international agenda also offered potential for staff - this agenda would need to highlight that Scotland is a good place to both live and work if the best academics and teaching staff are to be attracted to Scotland.
The DFM concluded that there was a larger discussion to be had in this area and suggested that Roundtable members plus representatives from the Enterprise Networks, SDI and the British Council should meet in the autumn to discuss this further.
Action: Executive to set up a meeting in the autumn of 2006 for the purpose of discussing international issues. (Suggested participants SFC, ASC, US, STUC, NUS, SE, SDI and the British Council)
Agenda Item 5 - Funding Council Skills Committee
John McClelland informed members that the SFC's Skills Committee would use existing skills evidence to inform their work. Membership of the committee had been decided by inviting those considered best able to use this information effectively. It was legitimate therefore to regard this as a committee of skills experts. The committee will also work closely with SSCs, industry and others to collate the information they require.
US commented that they had been reassured by this information. The ASC wished to note that they believed that engagement with employers would be very important in informing the future requirement of the sectors.
Agenda Item 6 - Health and Safety: Stress Auditing
The Executive continued to actively encourage a reduction in work-related stress in partnership with the Health and Safety Executive. The STUC raised the possibility of a national stress audit for both the FE and HE sectors although other members did not consider a national audit to be appropriate at this time. There was also a concern that a national audit could potentially undermine the current responsibility that individual employers had. It was, however, considered important to liaise with the co-ordinator of the 'Coordinating Health and Safety in Tertiary Education (CHASTE) Project' in order to gain more information about that research. ASC, STUC and University Scotland agreed to discuss this further together and report back at the next meeting.
Action: Table further discussion on agenda for next meeting.
Agenda Item 7 - Estates Strategy
A range of estates projects are currently underway with others imminent across both sectors. The SFC informed members that the Glasgow Estates plans are progressing with a recommendation due to be presented to the full Council for its consideration on 26 June.
An East Renfrewshire local paper had recently made reference to the development of a new college in the area called Barrhead College. Members were unclear as to the origin of this proposal but thought that it may be a local authority initiative. The NUS expressed concern that this was causing unnecessary upset for the student body, particularly of Reid Kerr College. The Funding Council agreed to look into the matter.
Action: Funding Council to investigate references to Barrhead College
Agenda Item 8 - Future Funding of the Sector
The potential for review of how funding was allocated to and between the FE and HE sectors was discussed. DFM encouraged those round the table to feed in any detailed thoughts on this in ways which might influence the manifesto drafting that would be taking place over the coming months ahead of the parliamentary election. The SFC noted that a review of funding methodology is currently underway and encouraged members to participate in its current corporate plan consultation.
Agenda Item 9 - Spending Review
The Deputy First Minister reinforced the importance of preparing strong and robust evidence for the next round of the spending review and beyond. DFM encouraged all members to focus on working together to present common messages and themes in the build up to next year's spending review.
Agenda Item 10 - A.O.B
STUC made a statement and wished it to be recorded under the following headings:
Noting: HE pay dispute remains unresolved.
Worrying: Concerned of impact of dispute on students which is growing.
Encouragement: Would like HE stakeholders to encourage national negotiations to promote a resolution.
The statement was noted without comment.
Close
DFM brought the session to a close by thanking all colleagues for attending and wishing HE colleagues well for their sector-specific session immediately following.
THE ROUNDTABLE FORUM
WEDNESDAY 10 MAY 2006 , St ANDREWS HOUSE
MINUTES OF HE-SPECIFIC SESSION
Participants: Riona Bell, SFC
Derek Horsburgh, SFC
Gail Edwards, NUS
Tim Goodwin, NUS
Mary Senior, STUC
Marian Healy, STUC
David Bleimen, STUC
Kath Ryall, STUC
Prof. Joan Stringer, US
Robin McAlpine, US
Mark Batho, Scottish Executive (in the Chair)
George Reid, Scottish Executive
Peter Lloyd, Scottish Executive
Anna Kynaston, Scottish Executive
Apologies: David Caldwell, US
Alistair Hunter, STUC
Professor John Archer, US
Welcome by Mark Batho
Mark Batho welcomed participants to the second meeting of the HE-Specific Roundtable and confirmed that further to comments received by members in the feedback on the format for the Roundtable this session would in the future be called the 'HEIs Session'.
Agenda Item 1 - Minutes of the previous meeting and action points
Minutes of the previous meeting were agreed without amendment.
However, at the request of the STUC, the minutes should in future attribute to the STUC comments made by any of its delegation, regardless of the union concerned. This was agreed.
It was agreed that action points from the previous meeting be dealt with under Agenda Item 5 - Fixed Term Contracts, as both actions points referred to this subject.
Agenda Item 2 - Cost Implications of HE pensions and other HR Issues
Universities Scotland (US) updated the meeting on research it had been doing in this area, and highlighted cost pressures facing the HE sector. Cost implications of pay modernisation, and the need for pensions investment were discussed. US noted that despite significant investment in the past, current low actuarial values of pension funds were going to become an important issue for the sector. US is keen to see if there is action which can be taken to prevent future worsening of these problems.
Discussion followed about the cost impacts of pensions on both employers and individual employees.
Agenda Item 3 - Progress on Tuition Fees
The Student Fees (Specification) (Scotland) Order 2006 is to be laid on Thursday 11 May and, in line with Parliamentary procedure, will be subject to a 40 day laying period. During this period the Order would be scrutinised by the Subordinate Legislation Committee, the Enterprise and Culture Committee and finally by the Parliament. US highlighted that the uncertainty about fee levels had created difficulties for institutions, for example students from other parts of the UK do not yet know what their fees will be. In the future it was suggested that fees should be set a year in advance.
NUS agreed that timings were not helpful for students and expressed concerns about the increase in costs for part-time students. The issue of potential variable fees and their impact on a student's course choice was then raised.
Agenda Item 4 - Bird Flu
US acknowledged that students are particularly vulnerable to epidemics and that this would place them vulnerable to pandemic flu. HEIs have been working on contingency plans for outbreaks of pandemic flu and compared to many other sectors their plans are well advanced. STUC made a plea that in developing contingency plans panic amongst staff was not caused.
Scottish Executive confirmed that contingency planning was currently taking place at a strategic level. The NUS thought that it was important that Scotland's student population be made aware that institutions were already involved in strategic level contingency planning for pandemic flu, including any possible outbreak of bird flu.
Agenda Item 5 - Fixed Term Contracts
STUC wanted to raise its concern that most HEIs were not prepared for the change of law regarding fixed term contracts due to come into force on 10 July 2006. The change meant that, as of 10 July, staff that had been in post on a fixed term contract for 4 years or more, or who had at least one fixed term contract renewed, would be legally regarded as permanent staff.
It was noted that the SFC was already working with institutions regarding this issue. In addition the SFC has made a commitment to monitor the number of fixed term contract posts in the HE sector after 10 July.
US added that it had discussed with the sector issues arising from the action point from the last meeting. The sector was fully aware of the impending deadline. The SFC added that while there was a desire to move away where possible from fixed term contracts, it should be understood that even after 10 July fixed term contracts would still be legal. As a result they would still be used where there was a sufficient business or financial case.
Action: Fixed term contracts to be on the next agenda in September to assess how things have progressed since 10 July.
Action: SFC to see if Martin Fairbairn can present the findings of the annual Contract Research Survey Report (for 2004-05) at the next meeting.
Agenda Item 6 - Any Other Business
Nothing raised.
Close
Meeting was brought to a close by Mark Batho with a commitment to get the September meeting date confirmed and issued to members as soon as possible.
Summary of Action Points
Agenda Item 3
Action 1: ASC agreed to report back on progress at the next meeting (HR Best Practice Project)
Agenda Item 4
Action 1: Scottish Executive to set up a meeting for the purpose of discussing international issues in the autumn of 2006. (Suggested participants SFC, ASC, US, STUC, NUS, SE, SDI and the British Council)
Agenda Item 6
Action 2: Table further discussion on agenda for next meeting.
Agenda Item 7
Action 3: Funding Council to investigate reference to Barrhead College
Agenda Item 5
Action 1: Fixed term contracts to be on the next agenda in September to assess how things have progressed since 10 July.
Action 2: SFC to see if Martin Fairbairn can be present to present initial results on monitoring of the sector since 10 July.