SCHOOL EDUCATION INFORMATION ADVISORY GROUP (SEIAG)
MAIN GROUP
MINUTES OF MEETING HELD ON 15 DECEMBER 2004
Scottish Executive Education Department
Alan Johnston, Head of IAC (Chair)
Mal Cooke, IAC ASU (Schools) Pupil, Teacher & School Statistics
Colin Gallacher, IAC ASU (Schools) Pupil, Teacher & School Statistics
Debbie Hall, IAC ASU (Schools) Pupil, Teacher & School Statistics
Alison Kennedy, IAC ScotXed
Kirsty MacLachlan, HMIE Corporate Services
Pete Whitehouse, IAC Head of ASU (Schools)
Roger Halliday, IAC ASU Children, Young People and Social Care
General Register Office Scotland
Peter Scrimgeour, Head of Statistics
ADES
Jane Clarke
Dave Jones
CoSLA
Ron Mitchell
Tom Gilmour
HAS
George Haggarty
SQA
Kenneth Miller
Marie McGhee
Apologies
Ken Arthur, ADES
Tony Conroy, LTS
Jim Doherty, SSTA
Frieda Fraser, AHTS
George MacBride, EIS
Chris Martin, SQA
Wray Bodys, HMIE HM Chief Inspector of Education
Emma Milburn, IAC ASU (Schools) Educational Outcome Statistics
Gary Sutton, IAC Data Management Team
Valerie West, IAC ASU (Schools) Local Education Statistics
1. Introduction and Welcome
1.1 Alan Johnston welcomed members to the tenth meeting of the main SEIAG Group.
2. Minutes of ninth meeting ( 17th May 2004 - Paper 04/05)
2.1 Minutes of the ninth meeting were agreed.
3. Matters Arising
3.1 Pete Whitehouse mentioned Ron Mitchell's enquiry about the progress of the School/College partnership raised at the previous meeting. Pete confirmed that a report was being drafted on this which should be available soon. Ron Mitchell confirmed that the STACs Focus Group would like to see schools getting credit for the attainment of all pupils on the roll but at subject level only getting credit for those pupils whom they put forward for examination. Alison Kennedy advised that school - college, and school - school links had been discussed at recent ScotXed Forums and that where partnership arrangements had been put in place the administrative burden was felt to be excessive.
4. Re-organising of Scottish Executive Data Management Team (DMT) and ScotXed
4.1 Alison Kennedy informed the group of the planned merger, early in the new year, of the Data Management Team and ScotXed. Alison explained that in merging, the new ScotXed Unit will be managing all the data collections to SEED. It was explained that the team could look in a more co-ordinated way at all data exchanges, not just those currently sent in XML. The other group members agreed that the planned merger was a good idea.
5. Consultation Mechanism for IAC - ED (Paper 04/06)
5.1 Pete Whitehouse introduced Paper 04/06 which outlined the proposed merger of ScotXed Steering Group with SEIAG. He explained that it seemed more appropriate to merge both advisory groups partly because of the shared membership, partly due to the overlap of the remits and partly because of the need to consider both the provision of data and the analysis and presentation when planning the forward workplans. Alison Kennedy produced a document showing the ScotXed subgroups and how they linked together.
5.2 Jane Clarke agreed that this would be a logical move as there were overlapping issues in both groups but suggested that the membership of such a group looked weighty. Alan Johnston explained that in merging the groups, it was hoped that no one would be missed out and suggested that each organisation have a lead representative but could nominate others to attend meetings.
5.3 Alan Johnston advised that the frequency of meetings was open to suggestion but that two or three meetings per year would be reasonable. Jane Clarke raised the concern that expanding collections has implications for workload and strategy for the education authorities.
5.4 Ron Mitchell suggested that the merged SEIAG/ScotXed group should be of a more strategic level, take a step back and have a more objective role, if necessary challenging decisions made by the sub-groups. Alan Johnston agreed that the group should have a more strategic role. Jane Clarke suggested that this new group need not be involved in the technicalities of ScotXed. Dave Jones explained that the policy position of the group would be important as currently decisions made in one group could impact on another group.
5.5 Group agreed that a single merged group would be affective but only if it had the correct set up. Alan Johnston advised that a draft paper detailing the new groups remit and membership would be written up.
Action Point 1: Pete Whitehouse to circulate draft remit and proposed membership of new merged SEIAG and ScotXed Steering Group.
6. Review of 2004 collections by IAC - ED (Paper 04/07)
6.1 Pete Whitehouse introduced paper 04/07 detailing ScotXed and traditional data collections in 2004.
5-14 Attainment
Collection went well apart from slight problem with Gaelic medium classes were some LAs failed to record Gaelic attainment. Also some problem in SEEMIS LAs distinguishing between "not yet attained" and "not available".
School Leavers Destinations
Slight problem in independent schools. The category of unknown destination increased significantly, needs to be reviewed.
1st/2nd/3rd Term Leavers
Collection went smoothly for term 1 but terms 2 and 3 were not so good. Also some authorities were using the wrong status codes for school pupils attending further education colleges.
6.2 Mal Cooke spoke about his data collections :
Independent School Census
Under review about how much data has to be collected for independent schools. Last year this was a separate publication. School level data was also available on the Scottish executive website.
www.scotland.gov.uk/stats/publist.aspx?theme=37&pillar=people
School Meal Survey
Collection changed this year to include healthy eating i.e. free fruit and water provision. Dave Jones enquired about the difference between entitled and registered. Mal explained the difference and informed the group that this topic was popular at various ScotXed meetings. He also explained that SEED had enquired in depth about the different ways in which LAs record their entitled figures, and disseminated this information to encourage best practise. He summarised the different methods used. Ron Mitchell raised the issue of GAE and how 'entitled' was not a suitable measure. He felt registered may be a more accurate measure to be used in the GAE calculation. Mal Cooke agreed particularly now that the discrepancy between authorities' entitlement methodology had been revealed, this could now be considered by the COSLA settlement group. Various methods of benchmarking schools were being investigated by HMIE.
School Openings and Closures
There had been a few closures that SEED had not been informed of.
Budgeted School Running Cost
Mal advised that this data would not be included in the expenditure publication due in mid-January as it had been removed from National Statistics due to problems with quality. As it was still in legislation that schools made this data available in handbooks, the data would still be collected.
Placing Requests
No difficulties to report.
Education Outwith School
No difficulties to report.
Teacher Vacancies
No difficulties to report.
School Estates Core Facts
First collection took place last year. Information being made available but with warnings that the data was not accurate. Last years data was not published however it was sent back to LAs so that they could compare their figures to other LAs of similar size. Mal advised that the second collection was underway and that several changes had been made to the collection for this year.
Incidents of Violence and Anti-social Behaviour
Following the findings of the review group, the Minister had decided to discontinue this collection. In the future there will be a sample based survey every year, similar to the Munn report.
School and Pupil Census
Collection for this year appears to be going well. School level data for last year is available on the Scottish Executive website.
LA Staff Census
First collection, with understandable difficulties.
Attendance, Absence and Exclusions
Exclusions published at the end of last year. Attendance and absence published 14th December. First ScotXed school level collection.
6.3 Dave Jones raised the issues of LAs not accurately reporting their attendance and absence figures. Mal Cooke advised that as with any survey the Scottish Executive rely on LAs/schools being honest and accurate. Mal advised the group that this year's figures provided a much better insight into absence and allowed for further analysis such as persistent truancy, etc. Mal also advised that patterns were spotted in SEEMIS authorities and that this matter had been investigated, however had this level of data not been available this pattern may have gone unnoticed. Ron Mitchell expressed the view that there was excessive detail and too many different codes for types of absence, though it was acknowledged that schools and LAs add further codes. George Haggarty said that it was a frustrating process for schools and that after all of the work involved it did not empower headteachers. He suggested commissioning some qualitative analysis. Alison Kennedy said these concerns could be raised in the ScotXed annual review.
6.4 Ron Mitchell raised the topic of having school level data available for all data collections and publications. Mal Cooke advised that this was not always possible due to staff constraints and disclosure and that a balance had to be maintained between resources and demand. There were quality issues in analysing at small-area level. Mal also informed the group that there were now many more school-level statistics available on the Scottish Executive website than there had been previously. Also, all publications now appeared with the tables in Excel for ease of analysis. LA-level attendance and absence data, which could be used to re-produce the publication, had been provided to LAs.
6.5 George Haggarty noted that a child's absence can be understandable, but gets marked as unauthorised according to the codes. He said one real challenge is to identify and deal with the hard core of persistent truants. Ron Mitchell noted that headteachers and LAs can readily spot patterns in truanting from their systems, though this level of detail is not sent to SEED.
Action Point 2: Ron would be sent school-level 5-14 data
6.5 Tom Gilmour told the group that he thought the 5-14 collection went very well and the pupil census had improved however there were still problems with the staff census. Tom explained that some schools do not keep certain details about staff and rely on personnel to supply this, alternatively they would have to start collecting data that they have never stored before. Jane Clarke made the point that not all local authority HR departments have accurate records on school staff.
6.6 George Haggarty raised the problem with delays with handbooks data. Mal Cooke advised that all data with exception of attendance and absence was available by the deadline 15th November. Mal explained that there were hold ups in receiving attendance data from LAs which in turn delayed processing by SEED.
6.7 George Haggarty also raised concerns about the way figures were interpreted in newspapers. Mal Cooke advised that the minister was trying to emphasis the importance of considering the full picture, however what newspapers printed could not be controlled.
7. ScotXed Progress
7.1 Alison Kennedy explained that procXed was the processing system used by SEED and was available to LAs to enable them to check their data but also to provide access to the data for LAs.
7.2 Alison then explained that scotXchange was a web publication facility currently hosting the ScotXed website and STACs. It can also publish discussion forums.
7.3 George Haggarty raised the problem with delays with STACs data. Alison explained that due to technical difficulties it had been delayed by three weeks, but that a lot of work had been done and a large sum of money had been invested in its development. Alison also informed the group that pre-appeals data were available for the first time on ScotXchange (schools can access them from the website). The analysis system is now more modular, making it potentially easier to incorporate analyses of Access 2 and Unit-level data. Post-appeal data would be available from the beginning of February 2005, and STACs Phase 2 would be available from May. The Phase 2 ScotXchange website would be more interactive, allowing schools to compare themselves with other similar schools. Training for key quality improvement LA staff would take place in June 2005. Kirsty MacLachlan pointed out that similar schools could presently be compared on the HMIE website for pre-appeals results.
7.4 Alison then explained School to School and UPI (Unique Pupil Identifier). She explained that the school to school clearing house would support data exchanges when pupils transfer establishments within Scotland and cross-across border. Alison informed the group that it was proposed that a pupil's UPI would be their SQA candidate number. Jane Clarke explained that Smart Cards (e.g. for free school meals) that were being introduced would use another number and not the pupil's candidate number, and that this should be more co-ordinated. Alison explained that talks between ScotXed and other relevant Executive departments were ongoing but that ScotXed's need was current, hence the separate development now.
7.5 Alison said that the Benchmarking Task Group would publish a paper to inform prioritising of data collection and analysis, and there would be opportunities to comment in January and February. The report would be sent to LAs and could be considered at headteacher meetings.
7.6 Ron Mitchell queried whether the measure of lowest 20% attainment applied nationally, or to each LA. Alan said that for Spending Review purposes, the lowest 20% attainment is applied nationally
Action Point 3: Alison Kennedy to investigate introduction of Smart Card numbers.
Action Point 4: Alan to send to Tony Conroy of LTS, the internet link to the Spending Review report and its technical notes.
8. SCOTSTAT Board
8.1 Pete Whitehouse explained that Emma Milburn was the Chair of the SCOTSTAT analysis consultation subgroup, however Pete would take over this role as of January.
8.2 Ron Mitchell suggested that there should be a demonstration at the next SCOTSTAT meeting to show delegates what data is available on the Scottish Neighbourhood Statistics website.
8.3 Mal Cooke explained the role of the second subgroup, the Survey Review Subgroup. He explained that any proposed changes to non-XML surveys go out to all LAs who have two weeks to comment on the proposed changes. The LAs' comments are collated and, with SEED's response, are sent to all LAs. There had been six consultations during the year which had been very helpful. Ron Mitchell remarked that this process of consultation was very useful, and it was good to see the other LAs' comments and views. Details of the six consultations were given.
SCOTSTAT minutes are available on the Scottish Executive website
www.scotland.gov.uk/stats/scotstats/committees/education/minutes.asp
8.4 Ron Mitchell commented that Chief Statistician, Rob Wishart's draft paper on Freedom of Information as it affects National Statistics was useful, for example in giving guidance so that there is consistency on approaches to dissemination and confidentiality.
The latest FoI guidance paper can be found on the SCOTSTAT Board web page under the guidance section. www.scotland.gov.uk/stats/scotstats/guidance
Action Point 5: Pete to speak to Rob about making Rob's guidance more widely available.
9. Statistics Plan (Paper 04/08)
9.1 Pete Whitehouse introduced paper 04/08 and the Scottish Executive Statistics Plan and Annual Report 2004 Overview, a draft report by Rob Wishart. Pete explained that this year it is hoped that the statistics plan 2005/06 will be available in April/May 2005 as the 2004/05 plan was not published until October. The impact of the ScotXed objectives will also be covered in the plan this year, especially since ScotXed and the Data Management Team are merging. The aim is to consult customers in February and March on the draft plan and to finalise it in the early part of 2005/06. The statistics plan and ScotXed workplanning would be co-ordinated.
Action Point 6: Alan proposed a mid-year (March/April) SEIAG meeting to discuss progress with the plan.
Action Point 7: Pete Whitehouse to circulate draft Statistics plan 2005/06 when available.
10. Education of looked after children (Presentation 04/09)
10.1 Roger Halliday gave a presentation on the education of looked after children and the need for better tracking of such children. Ideally, schools should always be notified by social work department as soon as a child becomes looked after, and education, as well as other care provision could be tailored for their circumstances. Schools presently know about two thirds of children looked after by local authorities George Haggarty advised that it would probably be best to consult with LA contacts in social work as they would know more about these children. Jane Clarke noted that it would be wise to include Directors of Education, as well as Social Work directors, in any communication and consultations. Tom Gilmour commented that cross-referencing social work data and pupil census data is very time-consuming for schools. Roger explained that once e-Care was in place there would be better communication between social work, education and health and so hopefully no children will be "lost".
Action Point 8: Group to be kept informed of developments in this area.
11. Census 2011 (Paper 04/10)
11.1 Peter Scrimgeour introduced paper 04/10 on the 2011 census. He explained that there would be a test of the census in sixteen months and two years there will be a practice run of the actual census. Peter questioned the group about their thoughts on the questions regarding educational qualifications and travel to place of study (both distance and mode of travel).
11.2 One problem is that exam and assessment systems have changed over time, so for people of different ages equivalent exams have different names, thus necessitating rather complex questions. One option is to ask for most advanced level of education reached in broad terms, rather than specific qualification gained.
11.3 George Haggarty expressed the view that the educational qualification question would be very useful and enquired about what analysis would be available for links between qualifications and travel to place of study. Kirsty MacLachlan advised that this information had been linked from the last census with particular interest paid to the links between mother's qualification, and how that compares to FME data. Kirsty suggested that the same analysis could be carried out next time if the information was collected. She told the group that HMIE were piloting this idea, though it was noted that this information would be 12 years out-of-date by the next census results. Ron Mitchell agreed that the educational qualification question was a valuable one and the more information that was available the better.
12. Any other business
12.1 Tom Gilmour asked that papers for future meetings be issued sooner.
13. Date of next meeting
13.1 Alan Johnston told the group that the next meeting was planned for March/April. He concluded by thanking everyone for attending and wished everyone a Merry Christmas.